Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 6 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 377 Today's Topics: amiga-atari war (2 msgs) amiga 68010,and 68000 16 mhz? CAD programs Cooling an ST Elvis Inserts Newlines in my Files IMPORTANT NOTICE about BART lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?) More on what Atari does have Portfolio in T2 start mag Stealth (was STalker 3.0/Flash upgrade?) STe vs. ST (wow, finally upgraded) Weekly Posting of New Stuff what Atari DOES have (2 msgs) Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Jul 91 09:56:41 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.ut ah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pnet01!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: amiga-atari war To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu my only envy on the amiga is from the start they had memory and slots easy to upgrade.for those stucjk with olsder(older)st's we got to use soder.atari should be more open minded.and i own an atari and i bitch. ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 14:36:15 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard) Subject: amiga-atari war To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul6.095641.18538@crash.cts.com> chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com (Chuck Schul) writes: > my only envy on the amiga is from the start they had memory and slots easy > to upgrade.for those stucjk with olsder(older)st's we got to use > soder.atari should be more open minded.and i own an atari and i bitch. > ---- > ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey > Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com > UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie > ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil Try to copy Files on A Amiga and format disk, all there commands are external, they have to be loaded from disk, that is why they have to use 2 disk drives, also they only write tracks, not sectors, and with out CRC checking, they only do sum checks.. Also all the Virus problems that they have, you can't write protect the disks as they don't use a dive controller ic. There file format is very Slow and there machine runs some 30% slower than a ST, this is because of the wait states that they have, no transparent video or ram refreshinger. I know I had one, all it was good for was Games.? -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not *** *** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! *** ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 09:56:39 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!n osc!crash!pnet01!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: amiga 68010,and 68000 16 mhz? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu i read on the amiga net that you can remove 68000 chip and replace with 8 mhz 68010 for faster operation hardly no software problems if you do there are software patches to help.can this be done on the st;s? also the can put a 16 mhz 68000 with ram chip and software patch to run faster also.can this also be done on the atari and why not.they seem to have a good cheap upgrade fix for thjose who cannnot afford 500 for a fastv 68030 board! ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 22:29:19 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!vivaldi.ecn.purdu e.edu!yegerleh@arizona.edu (James D Yegerlehner) Subject: CAD programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello Everyone, Does anyone have first-hand knowledge of the following CAD programs: Drafix 1 Master CAD (Michtron) Athena II First CAD level 1 (Genereic Software) Beyond any general impressions you may have, I am also interested in knowing if they support DXF format files, and what kind of printer drivers they come with. Also, can any of you guys in Germany suggest a CAD program? Seems like the last time I vistited my Swiss relatives there was a program called "BeckerCAD" advertised in ST Magazin. German docs are no problem. Price and oredering info would be helpful. I can summarize responses and post to the net if there is interest. Thanks, Jim -- __ __ | | \ / __ __ __ __ | __ |__ __ __ __ Jim Yegerlehner \/ |--'| ||--'| ||--'| || ||--'| 1132 Hawkins Graduate House | `-- `--|`-- | |`-- | || |`-- | W. Lafayette IN 47906 ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jul 91 16:07:10 GMT From: fernwood!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz) Subject: Cooling an ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul2.074902.27209@att!mwood!attcc!area88> erick@att!mwood!attcc!area88 (Erick Tadefa) writes: >Try rigging up a small 12v sprite fan and double stick tape it to the top of the case, so it will suck the hot air out. Its not extremely elegant but it is cheaper than trying to cram an ST's innards into a PC case. I figure you can tap 12v off the power supply or if you use a larger 110v fan then just plug it into the wall. >It will stay ice cold... >(maybe not ice cold but...you know) I had absolutely no trouble getting a fan in my old 1040ST. There is a rather large gap between the power supply and the disk drive. I bought a small 1" muffin fan from Radio Shack (costs about $14) and a toggle switch. which I mounted on the back of the cpu. You can draw 12v DC directly from the power supply. I then made a small baffle out of a piece of plastic (in true Atari fashion ) to direct the airflow over the power supply AND over my RAM expansion board. You can mount the fan with double sided foam tape (also available at Radio Shack). The total cost for all the supplies was less than $20 and it only took about 30 minutes to do all the work. The only caveat is that I've heard that newer ST power supplies aren't very robust so you might want to be careful of overloading it, especially if you've already added extra RAM. Regards, Chris -- ------------------------------------+--------------------------------------- Chris Mauritz |People are strange ritz@msb.com |when you're a stranger. Copyright (C) 1991 |The Doors- ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jul 91 18:02:07 GMT From: tellab5!vpnet!orc@uunet.uu.net (david parsons) Subject: Elvis Inserts Newlines in my Files To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul3.225107.7752@wam.umd.edu> dmb@wam.umd.edu (David M. Baggett) writes: |In article <1991Jul03.063410.16919@vpnet.chi.il.us> orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes [about the 32k file limit in Levee]: | |Is the figure "32K" a constant that you could tweak up to, say, |"256K"? Yes, it could be tweaked up to 256. With a recompile. Though I warn you- it will be s*l*o*w when you get up to 40+k of file, because one of the more repugnant bits of Levee is the way that I store the file - it's one long continuous block of characters, and when you're inserting at the start of the file, well, block moving 40+k of information can get pretty ugly. (For people keen on historical trivia, I store the file as a continuous block because when I first wrote Levee - in 1979(!) - the editor I used as a reference was the UCSD Pascal editor, which did exactly the same thing (and on a 56kb PDP-11/02, you're lucky if you can get more than about 20kb of file - the USCD editor managed to read about 16k files, but Levee, after one or two massive coding marathons, was able to fit a 21k file into core under the (unmodified) UCSD system, and about 22k under the much modified version we (the Terak hackers at Madison) played with. People may wonder why I've not released the source to Levee. Well, that's one of the reasons. Everybody needs to learn how to program, and Levee is how I learned :-) If people are interested in a mega-Levee, send me mail and I'll mail off a copy of it when I get it recompiled and working. .david parsons __ orc@pell.uucp(?) \/ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 15:08:37 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!terminator!terminator.cc.umich.e du!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner) Subject: IMPORTANT NOTICE about BART To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Due to a problem with address conversion, bart will be down until further notice. Or at least until Jon gets back from vacation. :) For those of you that care, the problem is this: when bart returns mail, he cuurecntly converts all addresses to lowercase. Problem is, it's converting lowercase to control characters, thus generating a fair number of sendmail errors and generally creating mass havoc. Bart will be on line as soon as the problem is corrected. In the meantime, please save everyone's machines a whole lot of trouble and DON'T bother sending mail. Keep your feet on the ground and keep 'em there, weiner -- Jeff Weiner --- weiner@{engin, atari.archive}.umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 23:52:12 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!axion!tharr!zebedee!geoffc@uunet.uu.net (Geoffrey Coan) Subject: lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9331@mcshh.hanse.de> the.fawn@mcshh.hanse.de (Thomas Quester) writes: > If you have any problem with any archive and the version 1.13.20 or newer, > why not send it to me. If the archive is not damaged or if it is'nt coded > with LHA 2.xx on a PC, I will adapt my version of LHarc to read this kind > of archives. > I hear lots of mentions of LZH 1.13.20 and as a confirmed LZH user it looks like I ought to be using it so where is it available from ? The best place to distribute it would be comp.binaries.atari or failing that how about atari.archive.umich.edu ? Incidently, I tend to use lharc 1.13 and I find very few (or is it even no ?) incompatibility problems. > Thomas Quester * Lampenland 9 * 2050 Hamburg 80 Geoffrey -- are you ready to SKYDIVE ?? Geoffrey Coan well all right then, if you say so ... ..!ukc!axion!tharr!zebedee!geoffc <- UUCP'd from my ST via tharr; *free* UK public access to Usenet 0234 841503 -> ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 10:57:09 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!masscomp!kno w!daemon@arizona.edu Subject: More on what Atari does have To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Since my original posting about the performance of the ST/SLM vs other CPU/laser combos, I have seen additional support for my position that the ST/SLM cannot be beat for speed and diversity of software that uses that speed. The best move that Atari could make would be to market the SLM605 laser with an PC interface board and a 40-50 meg hard disk. The whole unit could retail for <$1500 CDN, including UltraScript. The PC users could get FAST, FAST outputs like SLM605 users now enjoy. The hard disk could be set up with a printer server to handle multiple jobs from a variety of users. I tried to us MS Windows 3, with a QMS Jetscript board to print out PS files from Windows applications, such as PerFORM/perFILL. After talking to Delrina (PerFORM folks), HP (it owns QMS) and Microsoft, we had to abandon the project. Outputs were just too slow to be useful. Broke my heart that I wasn't allowed to use an ST/SLM605 due to a total reluctance to forget the PC based system. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 03:46:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!cs.uoregon.edu!ogicse!milton!akbar.ca c.washington.edu!iho@arizona.edu (Il Oh) Subject: Portfolio in T2 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I know that this isn't really about ST's, but I've seen stuff about other Atari products here. Nobody's mentioned this yet. They clearly use a Portfolio in Terminator 2. John Connor (Linda Hamilton's character's son) uses it to "plug into" a bank ATM and steal money. It looks like somebody at Atari was on the ball with this one. -- Il Hwan Oh |"Sometimes of late years I find myself thinking Univ. of Washington, Tacoma | the most beautiful sight in the world might be iho@cac.washington.edu | the birds taking over New York City after the | last man has run away to the hills" ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 09:56:33 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.ut ah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pnet01!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: start mag To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu is start back yet in the us?what's the scoop! ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 05:05:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodwo rth@arizona.edu Subject: Stealth (was STalker 3.0/Flash upgrade?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu > If you have seen the shareware program "Hagterm", you've seen >Stealth. It is just an attempt to sell HT for money. Unfortunately >(IMO), Stealth demands too many resources and offers too few features >(and no innovations) to be worth considering. ~ quote from an article by jjung@nunki.usc.edu Hey there! I remember you from rec.games.video :) I have used "Hagterm." I did not like HagTerm. It just doesn't appeal to me; yet, I applaud the person who programmed it. If everyone tried to write product, we would have a lot more software :) Hehehehehe Thank you for the bash, I'll avoid Stealth at all costs! Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 15:42:07 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!samsung!umich!vela!swood@arizona.edu ( EVENSONG) Subject: STe vs. ST (wow, finally upgraded) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello all! The local ST store just got my old STfm since the replacement internal drive finally kicked the bucket. They worked out a swap with me on new 1040 STe, and now I am wondering what all the netland folks suggest I go looking for first to best show off my new toys' talents. I am just wondering what this thing can do. ie, what are some of the new sound demos that will show off the stereo sound, and what is the picture format for me to show off all of my new colors?? Any other nifty program suggestions would be appreciated. swood -- ---- Insert favorite .signature here ---- | swood@argo.acs.oakland.edu | swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu Bitnet: swood@Oakland | swood@unix.secs.oakland.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!umich!{vela, argo, unix, nucleus}!swood ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 08:21:47 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!umich!terminator!usenet@arizona.ed u (Atari Archive Robot) Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Jun 30 20:39 . drwxrwxr-x jon 1536 Jun 30 20:35 ./archivers -rw-r--r-- weiner 2920 Jun 30 20:36 ./archivers/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 65280 Jun 30 20:33 ./archivers/stzip09b.lzh drwxrwxr-x jon 6144 Jun 30 20:20 ./utilities -rw-r--r-- weiner 10944 Jun 30 20:21 ./utilities/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 130485 Jun 30 20:20 ./utilities/sysmon.arc drwxr-xr-x weiner 512 Jun 30 20:17 ./utilities/doubclick -rw-r--r-- weiner 6730 Jun 30 20:17 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42230 Jul 2 20:08 ./CompInd.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Jul 3 17:26 . drwxrwxr-x jon 1536 Jul 3 17:24 ./languages -rw-r--r-- weiner 2994 Jul 3 17:25 ./languages/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 139371 Jul 3 17:23 ./languages/j_st_32.zoo drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jul 3 12:41 ./sound -rw-rw-r-- weiner 13503 Jul 3 12:42 ./sound/sounds/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 1390 Jul 3 12:39 ./sound/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 84076 Jul 3 17:25 ./Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 42234 Jul 3 17:26 ./CompInd.Z drwxr-xr-x gray 512 Jul 4 10:20 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc drwxr-xr-x gray 512 Jul 4 10:25 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src -rw-r--r-- gray 2788217 Jul 4 10:00 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/gccsrc00.zoo -rw-r--r-- gray 825320 Jul 4 08:33 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/confgdir.zoo -rw-r--r-- gray 0 Jul 4 10:25 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/Update_11_version drwxr-xr-x gray 512 Jul 4 10:25 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/bin -rw-r--r-- gray 0 Jul 4 10:25 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/bin/Update_11_version -rw-r--r-- gray 890466 Jul 4 09:17 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/bin/gccbin00.zoo drwxrwx--- gray 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noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!sialis!or bit!pnet51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: what Atari DOES have To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Dave_Ninjajr_Flory@cup.portal.com writes: >I use a MacII xc with a laserwriter IIntx every day at work and it is a >_dog_ speedwise compared to the Mega and SLM804 I have at home. It doesn't >matter how fast the printer itself it, its choked to death by the appletalk >connection. The Atari DMA rate of over a meg a second is hard to beat. >Ataris have problems but speed of laser output is one area the mac and IBM >don't compete. I use them all. And you think that a laser printer can print 1 megabyte a second? I'm no apple advocate, but the speed of appletalk can certainly keep up with the fastest laser printers on the market today for PC's. (pc is generic here). course i suppose that those atari printers aren't postscript either. have you used a laserwrite IISC (scsi laser printer). scsi is alot faster than appletalk, yet they print at the same speed. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 15:50:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: what Atari DOES have To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes ... ] > And you think that a laser printer can print 1 megabyte a second? I'm no apple > advocate, but the speed of appletalk can certainly keep up with the fastest > laser printers on the market today for PC's. (pc is generic here). course i > suppose that those atari printers aren't postscript either. have you used a > laserwrite IISC (scsi laser printer). scsi is alot faster than appletalk, yet > they print at the same speed. The Atari SLM804 and SLM605 are not PostScript printers, they are bit image printers, like the NeXT printer. They rely on the host computer to build the image, which is dumped across the DMA interface at high speed. The bit image will be several megabytes in size. The bit image can be built by a PostScript interpreter running on the ST or TT, or it can be built directly directly by the application software. PageStream lets you use either method. Calamus requires the latter method, as do applications using GDOS. A PostScript interpreter running on a ``slow'' 68000 in the ST may actually be faster than a dedicated PostScript printer running on a much faster CPU, depending on the nature of the image to be printed. If the project involves lots of fonts that have to be downloaded or -- worse yet -- bit images, the i/o to the PostScript printer becomes a serious bottleneck. A project involving scanned photographs might benefit significantly from a faster interface, such as SCSI. But regardless of where the PostScript interpreter resides, it is inherently slow compared with direct imaging and a fast DMA bitmap dump. PostScript introduces a middleman whose presence always slows down the process. Calamus can build and output eight complex pages with multiple fonts, vector drawings and sophisticated halftone shading before a PostScript printer can finish the first. You don't have to take this on faith; you can go to any Atari dealer and watch it happen. There are advantages to PostScript printing, including font availability and quality, and portability to high-quality output devices (although Calamus does have a Linotronic option). But speed is not a PostScript asset. ---- Steve Yelvington Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************